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Oblasti skalního lezení

Mapa

Vzhledem k tomu že vyšla mapa Oblasti skalního lezení a vzhledem k tomu, že nám firma Žaket 60 map věnovala, abychom měli čím odměnit nejaktivnější přispěvatele Lezce, je nejvyšší čas se o této mapě něco dozvědět.

Mapa Oblasti skalního lezení patří do nemalé série map, které Žaket produkuje. Je v měřítku 1:800 000 a vyobrazuje kolem 140-ti skalních oblastí v České Republice. Podle tvaru a velikosti ikonky, jsou oblasti členěny dle materiálu (pískovec a ostatní) a významu (počet cest, oblíbenost, ...). U mapy je rovněž přiložena brožurka, kde je možné se o jednotlivých oblastech dozvědět další informace (přístup, rozmezí klasifikací, počet cest dle obtížností ap).

Stejně jako jsme po Vánocích překvapili některé přispěvatele Lezce 12-ti tričkama a 20-ti peněženkama od Hannahu, tak nyní mnozí z vás dostanou mapu od Žaketu.



Protože někteří píšete docela dost a bylo by zbytečný mít dvě lezecké mapy, můžete dostat také některou z následujících map:

Vodácká mapa - přehled všech sjízdných toků v ČR, obtížnosti, základní informace
Hrady a zámky - vyznačení cca 700 hradů, zámků, zřicenin ze základní charakteristikou
Turistické zajímavosti ČR - výběr cca 500 zajímavých turistických cílů

Samozřejmě, že si můžete pro svojí mapu dojít do nejbližšího lezeckýho kšeftu, kde by ji měli mít.

Tak ať s touhle mapou nezabloudíte a naopak navštívíte spousta skal, kde jste ještě nebyli.

Hop   [úpravy] 11:50 14.06.2002Tisk 

Reklama:


Související články:

Komentáře

Nový komentář 

 Hoj!
... no mám sto chutí dneska napsat aspoň stovku příspěvků do Lezce, ať se na mě dostane! No ale to už bych asi nestih, tak si teda koupím. Ale je to fajn že takováhle věcička vznikla, Už mizím do obchodu! Jinak když už jsme u map, tak Pražákům vřele doporučuju prodejnu map na Senovážném náměstí - na rohu před vchodem do Dlážděné... Je vidět že to tam dělaj s láskou;)
Zapsal: tomash, 13:00:58 14.06.2002
 Na pendrek
Tu mapu jsem viděl a je to jen další zbytečný předmět do domácnosti. Na netu a i v průvodcích je map pro hrubou orientaci, což je i případ tohoto dílka, fůra.

Navíc měřítko 1 : 800 000 je hrůza. To si člověk může vzít autoatlas a tam si lezecké oblasti zakreslit.

Jak tak občas koukám do mapy, zjišťuju, že nejlepší je zelená série od KČT - měřítko 1 : 50 000, popřípadě modrá verze (např. Ádr, Krkonoše, Komárka, Cínovec a okolí) v měřítku 1 : 25 000.

Jsou jasné a přehledné, člověk podle nich skály najde bezpečně, navíc podle nich může vyrazit i na výlet do přilehlého okolí. Stojí tak okolo sedmi osmi pětek a investice se vyplatí.

Co mě naopak zklamalo, jsou mapy zlínské společnosti ShoCart. Jsou podivně lesklé, mají stínované (proboha proč?) hřebeny hor, obsahují nejrůznější blbůstky (souřadnice GPS v Českém středohoří???, půllitr jako značka pro hospodu...), které mě nevyhovují. Ale hlavně - je v jich z mého pohledu mnohem méně informací než v KČT.

Berg Heil
Papouš, Aussig
Zapsal: Papouš, 15:38:30 14.06.2002
 měřítko
Víš papouši, vono udělat přehlednou mapu český republiky v měřítku 1:50000 a kapesnim formátu je docela problém...
Zapsal: Špicál, 16:05:36 14.06.2002
 mapy na Lezci
Ahoj HoP & JirkoS,
neplanujete neco podobnyho udelat na Lezci?? Tistena mapa je fajn, ale je to moc staticky. Na Lezci by to dostalo novy rozmer, stejne jako cesty s komentari a hodnocenim.
Zapsal: Musado, 22:14:19 14.06.2002
 Papouši, Papouši...
Umíš něco jinýho než kritizovat ? A to tvý Berg Heil mě taky už se..
Zapsal: Ležec, 12:37:36 15.06.2002
 Mě se ta mapa docela líbí
Já už náhodou tuhle mapu vlastnim, heč. A můžu říct ( teda napsat ), že z ní mam fakt radost. Je teda pravda, že to neni žádnej průvodce, kde je zakreslenej každej bohrhák ( ty se daj ale Papouši koupit taky ). Myslim že je to docela povedený dílko.
Zapsal: Luky, 20:45:18 15.06.2002
 Ad Musado
Ad Musado: Excelentní idea.
Pro autory Lezce: V případě realizace ideje jsem ochoten participovat authorsky.
Ležec: Blá, blá, anonýmku. Ležec může kdokoli, že? Třeba i já za chvíli?

Berg Heil in Sudetenland
Papouš
Zapsal: Papouš, 13:01:11 16.06.2002
 Sláva, sláva
Papouš je Bůh a konstuktivní kritik!
Ležec
Zapsal: Ležec, 13:02:19 16.06.2002
 Hmmm...
Včera bylo hrozný horko a tak jsem si dal doma pivko, ale nějak mi nesedlo a vyblil jsem se přímo doprostřed kuchyně. Najednou ale čumim a vidim, že na zemi vznikla nádherná mapa Ospa i s měřítkem a vysvětlivkama všech použitých značek.
Zapsal: Papouš, 08:20:43 17.06.2002
 ad mapy na lezci
Tak to mě vážně pobavilo, že "tištěný mapy jsou moc statický", dynamická mapa by byla fak super - někde se sesune svah a šup na mapě pekně vidím jak to letí dolů a jak se upravují vrstevnice v reálném čase, tak na to se fakt těším. Ještě by to mohlo signalizovat, kde zrovna narazili čerstvej sud a kde naopak pivo došlo aby si člověk ušetřil cestu... :-)
Zapsal: dlabik, 08:30:30 17.06.2002
 od autora
Ahoj, dík za komentáře kladné i záporné. Pro Luka: Asi jsi ty Domoradice a Zdemyslice přehlídl, ale jsou tam. Za info o dalších oblastech, či nepřesnostech budu vděčný. Mapa má sloužit spíše jako rozcestník, a budu se ji postupně snažit rozšířit o další oblasti. Na internetové verzi se už pracuje (zatím doporučuji odkazy na internet u jednotlivých oblastí přímo v mapě). TOM
Zapsal: tomáš, 08:56:22 17.06.2002
 Mapa se užije
Myslim že tato mapa rozhodne k zahozeni neni. Mam podobnou mapu Francie a uz jsem tam podle ni navstivil nescetne oblasti. Je to rozhodne neco, co na nasem trhu chybelo a co jsem postradal. Kdo rad navstevuje neustale nove oblasti jako ja, tak ji rozhodne vyuzije.
Zapsal: Hop, 09:45:22 17.06.2002
 Meritko
Teda meritko je strasny, doufam, ze je tam v nejaky textovy priloze upresneno, kde se ca naleza a kudy se tam da dostat, jinak je na 2 veci.
Zapsal: yakusan, 20:02:42 17.06.2002
 Pristup je tam popsan
No jasne ze tam je pristup popsan. Vzdyt to nahore pisu, ze je k mape prilozena take brozurka s dalsimi informacemi o oblastech.
Zapsal: Hop, 09:16:50 18.06.2002
 úsměv
Je úsměvné číst, kolik lidí se vyjadřuje k dílku, které ještě ani neviděli. Stejně tak je zajímavé, kolik lidí je už tím internetem tak zblblých, že by snad papír nejraději úplně zrušili. Sedím před trvale připojenou bednou půl dne ale na papírovou formu nedám dopustit.

Jinak ovšem něco podobného na WEBu bych jistě přivítal, ale moc dobře vím, kolik to je práce. Pro inspiraci zde:
http://www.vsak.webzdarma.cz/public/oblasti.htm
Do toho jsem se kdysi pustil a na víc nebyly síly.

Žaketu sláva a více takových dílek.

Martin Mellan


Zapsal: melloun, 11:23:50 18.06.2002
 Souhrn
Cau lezecka verejnosti. To vyse psane se tyka dila, ktere pred pulrokem vzniklo v moji hlave. Kazdy, kdo to videl, tak pochopi k cemu slouzi. Ja bych chtel videt Papouse, jak s autoatlasem dohledava jednotlive oblasti, fakt bych se bavil.
V uvodu pisu i doznani, ze vime o spouste oblasti ( malych ), ktere neprosli nasim sitem, doznavam, ze u mnoha oblasti nemame aktualni informace. Ale...
Nejak se zacit muselo, myslim, ze i tak to vetsine lidi prinese uzitek a pomuze nachazet nove oblasti. Ted budeme prubezne pracovat na aktualizaci, asi i rozsirovani o dalsi oblasti a v dalsim vydani bude zase vice a aktualnejsich informaci. Ty posilejte me, nebo Tomasovi, v brozure jsou na nas kontakty.
S mym svolenim se budou informace z brozury objevovat i na lezci ( je to tak Hope, ze? ) a vim, ze to neovlivni prodejnost papiroveho vydani.Mozna nekdo pocitadlo nosi porad v kletru, nebo ho bavi si stale dokola tisknout z Netu, ale naprosta vetsina lidi da prednost tistene forme.
Takze: diky za chvalu a diky i za konstruktivni vyhrady, za napady a informace.
P.S. Papousi, nechces delat do politiky?
Zapsal: Maty, 12:22:02 18.06.2002
 Oprava
Papousi, promin s tim autoatlasem, to jsem poprve precetl spatne.
Ale jeste k tem mapam, jelikoz me zivej:ScoCart je nase konkurence, presto ti odpovim na par otazek.
Vse co se ti na tech mapach nelibi, je ciste Tvuj nazor. Trh rika opak. Vyrazne ikony na lesklem papire prodavaji vice, nezli decentni informace.
GPS souradnice jsou pro vetsinu lidi naprosto zbytecny, ale cast trhu si je zada, tak tam jsou a zvysuji prodejnost...
Kazda mapa je pouze kompromis a kazdy si ji kupuje za jinym ucelem. Do auta mi staci 1:250 000, na kolo 1:75 000, na pesi turistiku 1:50 000, v horach 1:25 000, na orientaky 1:15 000 ve skalnich terenech 1:10 000 a kdyz si budu stavet barak, tak si sezenu podklady 1:1000.
Vydej mapu, urcite si ji koupim, slibuju ( pokud bude za prijatelnou cenu). Kdybys nevedel jak se mapa dela, Tomas ti to vysvetli, ale bude to na dlouho...
Zapsal: Maty, 12:32:20 18.06.2002
 To je keců
Osobně si myslím, že tenhle nakladatelskej počin prostě není zbytečnej. A kritizujte si ho jak chcete!

Mapu nemám, ani sem neviděl, ale ten princip je fajn: něco malýho přehlednýho pro inspiraci. Jedu se prudit, třeba s rodinou, nebo na služebku (kamkoliv), kouknu a vidím. Kosek dál nějaký to lezeníčko. Nalistuju, jo to by mohlo bejt. No a možná začnu stahovat průvodčíky a další informace. A třeba z tý očekávaný prudy bude prima odpoledne (když utrhnu čas a seženu spolulezce) který mi zpestří pobyt.
Nebo jinak: hledám něco novýho, něco kde sem ještě nebyl. Jan tak si čumím do mapky (v měřítku ve kterým určitě není určená k tomu abych podle ní chodil - to může zkoušet jen pitomec) a napadá mě zajímavá trasa vejletu - známý místa, jen sem nevěděl, že tam lze taky lézt, nový oblasti rostou jak houby po dešti (a ještě někdo přidává další na Brdy).
Takže dobře, že ta mapka je. I když jí určitě půjde vytknout spousta věcí, určitě není nejdokonalejší a určitě neuspokojí všechny. Třeba jednou vyjde další "upravené, doplněné a revidované" vydání.

Přeju prima objevný výlety :-)
Zapsal: Tomáš F., 17:12:56 18.06.2002
 Rada
Dovolte, abych se představil:
Jsem mimozemšťan, který zachytil vaše zprávy na tom Internetu, jak tomu říkáte.
Po dlouhé analýze jsem zjistil, že vám, človíčkům jde o to ukázat druhým, jaký já jsem to frajer.
U nás to řešíme takto: Kdo chce se chce předvést, tomu napřed dáme pořádně do držky, a pak ať ukáže, co v něm je. U vás bych to řešit jinak: s tzv. maglajzem je to slabota, bez něj taky. Doporučuji klouzavou substanci. Prý máte nějaký klouzek. Ten by byl povinný, a pak se teprve ukáže.

drfhgdgdf
Zapsal: drfhgdgdf, 14:40:51 19.06.2002
 Omluva
Omluvte nezkušeného mimozemšťana. Rada patří jinam - k tzv. Suškám.
P.S. U nás Sušky říkáme uzrálým ženám.
Zapsal: drfhgdgdf, 14:56:10 19.06.2002
 Re: Maty
Díky za exkurs do měřítek, nerozumím jen poznámce, zda bych nechtěl dělat do politiky.

Mapy mě sice neživí, pracuji s nimi ale často, když sháním mapové podklady pro tipy na výlet.

Ze srovnání map KČT a Shocartu u mě vychází jednoznačně lépe KČT. Proč - to jsem napsal výše. Zlíňané mají nevýhodu, že naskočili na trh až po turistech, nicméně jejich cesta mě od začátku přišla podivná - atypická měřítka, málo informací, příliš barevnosti.

K prodejnosti - nemám sice čísla, je možné, že trh žádá lesk (tomuto trendu se, pokud se nepletu, přizpůsobili i u KČT), ale v mém okolí neznám nikoho, kdo by měl celistvý set map od Shocartu. Naopak znám dost lidí, kteří mají sérii map KČT. Proč? Protože se drží jednotného měřítka, topografických značek a neexperimentují s barevnými půllitříky jako logy pro hospodu, nestínují kopce tak, že to zakrývá obsah mapy atd.

Co tak chodím po krámech, všímám si, že mapy KČT dominují. Soudím, že je to proto, že jsou jedny z nejlepších i ve srovnání se zahraničím . Mám pár map od Kompassu (např. Juru) a to je teda chaos. Miliony červených čar, chybí zvýraznění míst popsaných na rubu mapy, naprosto nepřehledné.

A teď k mapičce se skalními oblastmi. V krámě jsem ji skouknul, a když jsem viděl velká loga skalek, která jsou nahňahňaná na sebe (nepřehledné), k tomu separé buklet (proč? také trend?), řekl jsem si Nebrat. A to si mapy kupuju docela rád. Z mého pohledu je to ve srovnání s tím, co jsem viděl za mapy, prostě špatně udělaná věc s dobrým záměrem. A abych jenom nekritizoval, kvůli čemuž mě tu někdo kritizoval, sdělím svoji osobní zkušenost z Frankreichu.

V Šamonici v Domě vůdců jsem si půjčil obdobnou věc - knihu o francouzských oblastech. Stručná charakteristika, počet cest od do atd. Jenže ne mapa a buklet, ale kniha a v ní mapy - jednodušší, přehlednější, nabouchané informacemi. Žádná okrasa, infoservis.

Mapu nevydám, neb se tím jako ty neživím, jak se dělá si představit dokážu. Nic mě ale nezabraňuje, abych řekl, co si zmiňovaném dílku myslím. Jinak soudím, že jako počin je to odvážné a správné, jen jsou na tom vidět neduhy úvodního kroku. Těším na další upgradované vydání. Jinak držím palce ve vydavatelském úsilí.

Berg Heil
Papouš, Aussig
Zapsal: Papouš, 17:45:09 19.06.2002
 Tak jsem ji videl
No tak jsem vcera videl tu mapu. Vypada celkem pekne, jen mi pripada, ze bud vydavatel nemel podrobnejsi info o terenech na morave nebo usoudil, ze to je zbytecne tam davat krom pristupu a typu materialu dalsi informace.
Namatkou jsem sel po oblastech: Kruzberk, Helfstyn a asi par dalsich. Pritom tyto oblasti jsou popsany dnes jiz v historickem pruvodci Nepiskovcove skaly na Morave (modra knizka z roku 88).
Ze tam neni oblast Godula, je chyba naseho oddilu, jelikoz se o tom dozvedel pozde a uz to tam neslo dodat. Pokud by byl stale zajem o podrobnejsi infa, tak se ozvete a neco poslem.
Btw. Na Stramberku bude o prazdninach vyvesen aktualni pruvodce.
Zapsal: Lumi, 07:54:20 20.06.2002
 ad mapy
Papouši, papouši. Mapa fi Shocart vzniká stejně jako mapa KČT z vojenské topografické mapy 1ku50 tis. Obsahuje (vyjma vedení vysokého napětí a několika marginálních značek) nachlup stejné informace. Shocarti navíc provádí aktualizaci mapy v terénu, přičemž ji rozšiřují o další informace. Hustotou informací tedy vede Shocart. Jednodužší mapa je na druhou stranu přehlednější a estetičtější. Méně barev je často výhra, to ví každý dobrý grafik. Myslím, že české firmy se pomalu učí pracovat s technologií digitální grafiky a pokud srovnáme např. mapy fi Shocart z počátku 90 let a současné je tu vidět pokrok.
P.S. Ty červené čáry na mapě Jury jsou zřejmě turistické značky, mají jich tam chudáci tolik až se lesy červenají.
Zapsal: tomáš, 10:16:39 20.06.2002
 Mapa a Kniha je rozdíl
Kniha o oblastech je jistě pěkná věc, ale už vidím jak ji táhnu s sebou do Francie. Jak jsem již psal mám podobnou mapu Francie a přesto že je snad ještě v horším měřítku, našel jsem podle ní už spoustu skal a hlavně mám díky ní přehled. Takže tu Papouši pořád porovnáváš dvě rozdílné věci. Nějaké podrobné mapy (kterých ale musíš mít stovky aby obsáhly celé území - navíc to stojí majlant) a přehledovou mapu, kterou strčíš do kapsy (a je za babku).
Zapsal: Hop, 11:03:17 20.06.2002
 Re: ad mapy
Tak teda ještě jednou KČT vs. Shocart. Mapový podklad stejný, to si dovedu představit (proč by měli dělat něco dvakrát, že). Upgrade u Shocartu: souhlas - nebožtík Srba mi dal šokártní mapu Českého středohoří, kde přibyly bunkry a několik turistických tras. To je ale jen otázka toho, kdy u KČT opět vyjde inovované vydání.

ALE: výhrady výše platí, informací JE míň (je vyznačení elektrického vedení na mapě marginálie? podle mě nikoli - řada přístupů ke skalám je založena na informaci: ...podél elektrického vedení...), fonty písma jsou divné (zbytečně tučné), atd viz výše....

ALE HLAVNĚ: způsob, jakým je na mapě zachycené území zdejšího kraje (řeč je ještě o Českém středohoří), je u Shocartu z mého pohledu padlý na hlavu. KČT má sérii, která přirozeně kopíruje místní morfologické úseky - Středohoří-západ, Středohoří-východ, Českosaské Švýcarsko. Shocart svoji mapu prsknul doprostřed - ani kočka, ani pes (i když ostatní mapové listy na něj navazují).

SUMA SUMÁRUM: KČT jsou takové veřejnoprávní mapy nabité informacemi, s nimiž je radost pracovat, vychutnávat si drobnosti. Shocart bych přirovnal k TV Nova. Byznys je byznys - loga, tlusté čáry... taková předkousaná strava pro malého českého spotřebitele, aby to dobře pochopil.

OTÁZKA: Trh si to sice žádá (jak kdosi prohlásil výše), otázka ale zní: Je potřeba vydávat specializovanou mapu pro pár lidí s ozdobnými logíčky skalních věžiček? Nestačilo by třeba udělat puntík, jehož průměr by signalizoval, kolik je v oblasti cest, jehož barva by napovídala, co je to za matroš?

Tolik k této věci.

Nyní praktický dotaz: Jsou v mapě i oblasti, kde se dá lézt v ledu (nevšiml jsem si)? Pakliže ne - mám dva tipy. Sdělte (Maty a Tomáš), zda o ně máte zájem. Dále sdělte, zda publikujete i oblasti, kde se v minulosti lezlo a nyní se to nesmí. Vím, že v některých průvodcích se to běžně dělá (např. České středohoří, Kozí vrch). Abychom jen tak netárali a navzájem se i obohatili.

Berg Heil
Papouš
Zapsal: Papouš, 13:33:31 20.06.2002
 oblasti
Popravde receno,oblasti s ledy jsme ignorovali, mozna nechtene, ale ty ledy co tu mame, mi nepripadaj zrovna zajimavy. Nicmene, pokud nam chces poskytnout informace, budeme vdecni, pravdepodobne je do dalsiho vydani zaradime.
Oblasti, kde je zakaz lezeni jsme vynechavali, oni lidi radi zakazy porusujou. Vynechavali jsme i nektere oblasti ciste lokalniho, mistniho vyznamu ( sice pekna skala, ale 5 cest = NE ). Nekde, treba tam, kde je skala na soukromem pozemku, jsme byli pozadani o neuverejneni, vyhoveli jsme ( nechca domorodcum pridelat potize ).V dalsim vydani asi pocet oblasti rozsirime, hlavne vsak chceme aktualizovat stavajici, doufame, ze na zadnou vyznamnou jsme nezapomeli.
A jeste k te otazce: zivi me prodej map. Ty barevny ikony a veci, ktery tobe v mape vadej, nejsou pro par jednotlivcu. Jsem bejvalej orientak, tak o mape mam svoji predstavu, ale tyhle nesmysly prodejnost fakt zvysujou. Vydavatelum nejde o to, se zavdecit lidem ktery od mapy pozadujou striktni mapove dilo, ale jde jim ( nam ) o to, aby jsme se uzivili ( o tom by se dalo dlouze diskutovat a asi vetsinou bych s tebou v nazorech na mapy souhlasil ). Tak je to se vsim v trznim hospodarstvi.
Shocarti udelali klad listu turistickych map pro CR tak, aby to vyslo na co nejmin titulu, zase otazka penez, to jim nelze vycitat ( ono udrzovat uz ty rady ktery maj, je prace pro armadu lidi... ), nastesti mame moznost volby od koho si mapu koupime. Kazdemu vyhovuje neco jineho...
Zapsal: Maty, 15:35:19 20.06.2002
 ad Papouš
Papouši, ty musíš mít prostě vždycky pravdu.
Zapsal: tomáš, 15:42:06 20.06.2002
 kčt v. Shocart
nemůžu si pomoc ale i mě se zdaji mapy KČT lepší. Ve srovnaní s kompasem jsou ale mapy shocartu super... souhlasím s naprostým chaosem u kompasu
Zapsal: Ram, 12:24:23 21.06.2002
 Maty
Maty, napiš mi svýho mejla.

BH in SL, Papouš, Aussig an der Ölbö
Zapsal: Papouš, 14:11:03 21.06.2002
 for Papous
Tak tady je.
Zapsal: Maty, 11:50:15 24.06.2002
 Jezírko je v MAPĚ !
Ale je škoda, že značku má jako NEPÍSKOVCOVÁ oblast.I když v textu je správně uveden písek nejlepší kvality.Ovšem v avízovaném průvodci by se tato megaoblast nenašla.Pro zařazení do pískovců hovoří i místní striktní pískovcová pravidla.M.j.:Cesty dělané výhradně shora, magnésium zde používají i rybáři, stupy a chyty jsou povětšinou sekané a někdy olepené pryskyřicí, v některých místech jsou našroubovány umělé.P.Fermann by zajásal.
Zapsal: John, 23:27:59 25.06.2002
 Jižní Morava
Na Jižní Moravě chybí zásadní lezecké oblasti - aspoň Kozel, Budačina a Osvětimanské skály tam být mohly. Třeba zařazené jen pod jeden společný odkaz.
Zapsal: Jara, 12:34:09 01.07.2002
 Mapy SHOCart
Papouši, Papouši... Ještě, že tady diskutují i lidé, kteří výrobě map trochu rozumějí (Maty) a dokážou posoudit aktuálnost a ne jen pouze nesmyslné množství informací v nepřehledné mapě. K čemu jsou prosím informace KČT o šířce průseků? O aktualizaci map KČT si nedělejte iluze. Nemají to moc jednoduché, jelikož podklady vlastně ani nevlastní.
Taky jsem orienťák a na půllitru jako hospodě se mi nezdá nic divného. Je to něco jako T (krmítko).
Mapu Žaketu jsem neviděl, ale myslím, že jsem pochopil o co autorům šlo. Díla by se měla používat k tomu účelu, ke kterému byla stvořena a proto je zřejmě zde inzerovaná mapa nevhodná k "dohledávce" v terénu :-)
Pokud budete něco opravdu hledat, zkuste se mrknout na stránky Papoušem zatracovaného SHOCartu a třeba vám to připomene i vysněnou dynamickou mapu: www.mapyonline.cz. Má snad vychvalovaný KČT něco podobného? Ti nepůjčí zdarma nikomu ani kousek mapy a pořadatelé z řad KČT chodí pro mapy na své akce do SHOCartu. Úsměvné, že?
Zapsal: Aldo Moro, 14:51:34 03.07.2002
 Re: Aldo Moro
Ty jsi fakt asi po smrti, a nejen podle přezdívky. Přečti si celou debatu ještě jednou, prober se, podívej se do Žaketu a pak se ozývej. Jukni na komentář Járy či Lumiho. Mapa skalních oblastí je prostě rychlovka s mnoha nedostatky, honem, aby se to dostalo na trh.

Obzvláště úsměvná je tvoje hláška: "O aktualizaci map KČT si nedělejte iluze. Nemají to moc jednoduché, jelikož podklady vlastně ani nevlastní."

Odpovím otázkou: "Malují snad turistické značky v terénu zaměstnanci fy Shocart?"

Především Shocart musí vycházet z toho, co udělá KČT (viz nebožtík Srba výše).

"KČT nepůjčí zdarma nikomu ani kousek mapy a pořadatelé z řad KČT chodí pro mapy na své akce do SHOCartu. Úsměvné, že?"

To je blábol, kterému už vůbec nerozumím. Jakože si turisti stahujou podklady z netu? Kdo má komu půjčovat mapy? Vždyť za využití mapových podkladů chce, pokud vím, zaplatit každý. A podle odkazu na web Shocartu se v terénu, sorry, chodit dost dobře nedá.

Berg Heil
Papouš Aussig
Zapsal: Papouš, 16:09:31 03.07.2002
 Nevím, kdo je tu po smrti
Nevím, kdo je tu po smrti, ale vidím, že mezi lidem kolují zvláštní dezinformace.
Zaměstnanci SHOCartu značky nemalují. Nemaluje je ani Trasa (to je ten správný vydavatel KČT) a zkus si zjistit, odkud mapy pocházejí (nápověda: sousedi na východě)....
Mimochodem, nikdo si z netu nic nestahuje, ale naprosto legálně se obrací na Shocart pořadatelé různých akcí. Viz např. www.krkonosskymaraton.cz - a to není ojedinělá akce.
A odkaz, který jsem uvedl neslouží k tisku, ale vyhledávání. Taky si totiž myslím, že tištěná mapa je tištěná mapa.
A tu tvoji slavnou modrou verzi 1:25 000 nevydává KČT ty šmudlo, ale ROSY.
Co je podivného na měřítkách 1:50 000, 1:75 000 a 1:100 000 ?
Jestli ty náhodou nejsi mimozemšťan č. 2
Zapsal: Aldo Moro, 14:50:00 04.07.2002
 Petr nebo Pavel...
...Harmanec, Trasa, Rohlík nebo zlosyn je mi to egál, důležitý je výsledek a logo KČT na titulu. Jako spotřebiteli mně jejich mapy vyhovují, proč viz výše.

Co je podivného na měřítkách 1:50 000, 1:75 000 a 1:100 000? Nic. Ale 1:55 000 nebo jaké měřítko měla cyklomapa Hostýnských vrchů zkraje devadesátek fakt divný je. Nebo minimálně neobvyklý.

Proti Šokártum jako firmě nic nemám, spolupracuje se s nima solidně, ale ty jejich mapy se mně nelíběj. Nic víc, nic míň. Dojít se podle nich dá, ale domů bych si je už nekoupil. Howgh.

Berg Heil
Papouš
Zapsal: Papouš, 16:23:12 07.07.2002
 KČT versus Shocart
Aldo Moro má podle všeho něco společného s Shocartem a tak se ptám jeho i ostatních na názor.

Taky jsem vždycky za nejlepší považoval mapy KČT. Teď jsem se o víkendu proháněl na kole po lesích na Vysočině podle padesátky KČT a byl jsem znechucen. Z čárkovanejch polních cest co se bojíš, že je netrefíš jsou asfaltky pro nákladák, některé plné čáry (cesty) prostě nexistují.

Když jsem přečetl tiráž mapy, začalo mně být jasněji.
Vydavatel KČT, tiskne vojenský kartogr. ústav Slovensko, použito digit. kart. podkladů z roků 86-88, uzávěrka mapy 97.

Ví někdo jakým způsobem se tyto mapy aktualisují? Nějak si neumím představit jak slovenští vojáci vyrážejí mapovat do Čech. Čerstvá zkušenost mne vede k názoru, že se tak maximálně zaktualizuje vedení značených cest (to sedělo) a jinak nic.

Začínám mít dojem, že mapy KČT velmi sice detailně a precizně mapují ovšem stav 20 let starý.

Martin Mellan
Zapsal: melloun, 13:45:44 08.07.2002
 Aktualizace mapového díla KČT a SHOCart
Mellounovi pochvala za zvídavost a úsudek.

Se správou mapového díla SHOCart je to jednoduché: firma vlastní své mapové dílo vzniklé na základě licence ze státního mapového díla a toto pomocí svých spolupracovníků (většinou smluvně) a dalších zdrojů (např. i orienťácké mapy) již 10 let obhospodařuje.

KČT to má složitější. Mapový základ vlastní na Slovensku a o aktualizaci se stará smluvně firma Topograf v Praze. Otázkou je co je to za firmu a jak aktualizuje (možná 3 listy ročně). Do základu nikdo z KČT ani NEMŮŽE zasahovat. KČT má na starosti pouze turistickou nadstavbu (značky, hotely, výhledy atd.), kteréžto informace se soustřeďují v jednom místě: redakce KČT (Rohlík - zvláštní, že? Kdo se asi skrývá za vydavatelstvím ROSY?). Z čeho je tato činnost financována, je taky dost neprůhledné. Možná, že částečně i z našich daní... A že KČT mapy vydávat nemůže (dotace), tak se zřídila TRASA a mapy se vesele prodávají. Slovákům se totiž musí taky zaplatit, takže je možné, že KČT z toho ani moc nezbude. Zdaleka nevidím do všech vztahů mezi KČT, ROSY, Topografem, Harmancem, TRASOU atd a už vůbec ne do jejich financování. Jisté je, že vše je provázané a neprůhledné a že se zde budou zřejmě točit i státní peníze. A že by nějaké střety zájmů? Ale tady šlo o aktualizaci, že? To se mi snad nastínit povedlo.

Výsledky obou? Nejlépe bude, když si soudný a mapě rozumějící člověk vezme mapu KČT a mapu SHOCart jednoho území, půjdete "do lesa" a sám posoudí. Myslím, že spousta konzervativců, kteří spoléhají na "vojenskou nálepku", budou velice překvapeni.

Zdar a sílu všem lezcům a čistou hlavu a nezamlžené brýle při posuzování kartografických děl. Jako orienťák se na to dívám tak, že žádná mapa není bezchybná a že.... <a href="http://tvorbamap.shocart.cz/images/vtip1.jpg" target="_blank">vtip</a>.

Více o mapování, kartografii (a dokonce i majitelích SHOCartu) naleznete na <a href="http://"tvorbamap.shocart.cz" target="_blank">tvorbamap.shocart.cz</a>
Zapsal: Aldo Moro, 08:37:30 12.07.2002
 Odkazy
Nějak se nepovedly ty odkazy :-( Kdo chce, tak to zvládne...
Zapsal: , 08:40:41 12.07.2002
 pomoct
Nazdar rad bych si nekde sehnal obednal nebo odkoupil tuhle mapku na lezeni poradte nekdo kde dik
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Zkus Hudy
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 kwtByDlaut
Přečetl jsi si i pe1r komente1řů pod vieedm a to je fakt sedla např. Mnozed z ne1s si ani neuvědomujed že jsou chuded a bude hůř. Je1 bych jen dodal mnozed z ne1s si ani neuvědomujed jak stašně jsou bohated
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Ruzyňská liga - závody pro děti (12)

 Nově v inzerci:
Lezečky La Sportiva Katana Laces vel. 39 | Prima chlap | Malarone Praha | prodam lezky Ocun crest vel.40 | Garmont Helium | Garmont Summit | Péřovka RAB Expedition 7000, vel.L | LS Miura Woman, 37,5, 1500 Kč | Dětský celotělový úvazek | Praha - Parťačka, parťák, parta? |

 Anketa:
Zamýšlíte se při lezení/jištění nad zodpovědností před zákonem?
 neřeším to 
 123 
 stará se hlavně, kdo leze 
 28 
 50:50 zodpovědnost 
 79 
 stará se hlavně, kdo jistí 
 31 
 nestarám se, jsem pojištěný 
 38 

 Návody:
Jak psát na lezce ...
Lezecké mapy

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